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"I just had a date from hell", stated the man standing behind me at the local Starbucks this rainy Sunday morning.
A date from hell, ahh I can relate to that experience myself. But just what is this experience that so many speak of ? C'mon we've all heard both males and females complaining of their most awful dating experiences as being the worst ever in history!
So then, what constitutes a "worst ever" experience? The context differs based on the differences in gender perspective from those interviewed.
First lets tackle the No. 1 question of who pays for dinner!
From the Men:
(these comments were made by men in the 28-62 year old age range, interviewed in the South Florida area)
The most common complaint is that women expect to be bought expensive dinners, whether the first meeting is a mutual attraction or not. Further, even if dating, many men often complain that they are expected to pay for all entertainment, dinners, etc. without any gratitude or reciprocity at all.
I asked what "gratitude and reciprocity" looked like. Exactly what are these men speaking about? Well, in general here is what they had to say.
1. We don't want to be expected to pick up the check. The woman should at least put her credit card on the table and offer to pay half, or at least pick up the tip.
2. Why should we have to pay for dinner if the woman makes the same salary if not more than what we are earning.
3. It shouldn't just be expected that the man pay for everything. I think a lot of these women are just gold diggers looking for someone to buy them dinner.
4. The woman wants us to buy them dinner but then won't even spring for a goodnight kiss or show us some affection.
5. What do we get in return for spending over $100.00 for a movie and dinner. Why should the man have to spend that kind of money every week on a different woman? In the internet dating scene, when you are dating around, it should be understood that we go dutch and share expenses.
OK....NOW FOR THE WOMAN'S POINT OF VIEW
When the same question was put to the women on this subject of who pays for what, this is what the general consensus was: (These comments were made by women in the 28-58 year old age range interviewed in the South Florida area)
1. Call me old fashioned but I think that when a man asks you to dinner, that he should pick up the tab. I mean, we talked on the phone several times, the man asked me out, why should I be paying for his dinner? Its kind of a man woman thing, you know, the man picks you up, drives you out on the date, opens the door for you (yeah right) and pays for the evening if he is interested in you.
2. Well, I can't speak for all women, but I do expect for the man that asks me out to show me a good time and pay for either dinner, movie, concert etc. Usually the guy makes a better income than many women and they can afford it. Many of us are single or divorced women with children to take care of and dinner out just isn't in our budget. Whatever happened to good manners and the way it used to be in my parent's time. Back then according to my Mom, men were gentlemen and would never even mention money or what things cost for the evening on a date!
3. I'm so glad you asked me this question. I get this all the time from many of my dates. They get offended if after buying dinner and spending approximately 1 hour and 52 minutes with them, you are not either all over them or letting them put the moves on you. I can't believe it, they expect us to just go home with them for the evening and spend the night over. So who really has the sense of "entitlement" here? Is it the women because we "expect" the guy to spring for dinner, or the guy because he wants us to "put out" after he spends his money on us?
4. Oh gosh, I don't know. I guess it depends on the situation and the persons involved. There are so many scenarios possible. You just can't say it should be any one way. I personally believe that before even going out on the date, perhaps you should have talked over things like values, belief systems, and the way you both are as people. Too many of us jump into something, I have to admit I've done it myself, for the wrong reasons. You know, the guy is really cute, but ends up being a player or a jerk by nights end. I think women should spend at least as much time as they do when buying a pair of shoes in the decision making process of whether or not the "guy" is a good fit!
5. Why does a man buying you dinner give him the right to think that he can have his way with you. Most importantly, is he dating or buying you for the evening? Perhaps he should be on one of the 1-900 web sites and not on the internet "dating" sites. Where do these guys get off expecting that they are owed something after a date that they've paid for?
6. On the who buys dinner thing, I don't really know, its always a different story with my dates.
One guy however, told me on the second date, that he really wanted to sleep with me. I told him that I didn't sleep with someone unless I knew them well enough to have developed some real feelings for them. His response? "You would sleep with me now if it weren't for the fact that you think I would think you were a tramp." Wow.....I couldn't believe what I was hearing from this guy. I should have just walked away and called a cab.
And there it is from my recent interview on: He said/She said
This forum only reflects the thoughts and opinions of this random interview study. I would love to hear from my readers around the world on this subject. Please let us know your thoughts and opinons!
Sunday, August 3, 2008
He Just Had A Date From Hell: And Other Excerpts From He Said She Said
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7 comments:
Dear Dr. Arlene,
Interesting thoughts. I am not in Florida too (suburb of Orlando) and a single male. I think the ideas here pose well for two people perhaps just meeting and wanting to know each other better, that is, old traditions win out, man pays, opens door, and only
kisses goodnight if he gets a signal for the woman this is okay.
If he is excepting something more,then of course he had an agenda in the first place and was not worth the time. These are traditional rules of society
But today, we live in an economy in which those rules, in my opinion, are, and should be broken at times, if, both parties are
honest up front.
An example is, when I am interested in a woman, I will generally ask her out for numerous coffee dates or lunches; nothing expensive as I am a newbie entrepreneur, and I am upfront about it.
Plus most of the women, if not all, who I date are educated enough to understand we live in
a country in which the economy is horrible. We are in similar times to the great depression in many ways. Sometimes, even good men cannot afford what they would love to spend on a worthwhile woman. Just a fact of life today.
So I am upfront, and tell the
woman my situation before asking her out for dinner. I still do not feel a sense of entitlement, if she is not interested sexually, which does occasionally occur, she will usually gladly split the bill; this even often happens
when one is interested in more action.
To me, these are not days to live in society's rules as they apply to dating as economically that is not even feasable to most of us.
Many of us were downsized from corporations and are getting by.
The more compassionate of the women I date understand that fully and are glad to contribute dollars so that we can get together, that is, if they are interested.
Each coupling is different. And like your earlier blogs agree, communication and honesty is the key. If a guy is struggling and working hard he should not tell the woman he has a lear jet parked somewhere. He should tell her like it is.
A woman with substance, if she feels there could be something, would understand. A "dinner sl*t" as we call them in Orlando, doesn't care, she wants her free
meal. A man has a choice, does he want that kind or the kind he can take home to mama.
Dylan
Outside Orlando, Fl
Dear Dr. Arlene,
What's with these society rules?
Wouldn't you imagine if everyone followed society's rules it would be a pretty boring world? I think every couple is different and can set their own rules. Who is it that is making these rules of
etiquette anyway? Whoever, I think its all pretty stupid. As Rodney King once said "Why can't we all just get along?"
Sincerely,
Rodney
Alexandria, Va
Hello Dylan,
Thank you for your upfront and honest post on this subject. Your acknowledgment of "old traditions" is refreshing.
Yet you also understand that we may be seeing a paradigm shift in societies rules, with the current state of the economy and gender equality changing the way we look at things today.
Yes, a person male or female with an "agenda" is not worth the time nor exhaustion from the game-playing scenario.
I agree that in this financial arena that many find themselves in today, being honest and telling the other person who you are is key to an authentic beginning in any new relationship.
A great love cannot be bought. For those that think they can win someone's heart with flashy cars and expensive dinners, you are in for a sad ending.
Of course most of us want our equal at least in areas of interests, personality, intelligence, career goals, values...in general someone that we can relate to...someone that "gets us."
This runs much deeper than who buys dinner. Thanks again for your input!
I s'pose I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm female single.
I agree with Dr. Arlene on almost everything; but I don't believe most of my colleagues are I, who are mostly single, in a small town outside of Austin hang on tight to the same criteria. I can only speak for myself, but I see them behaving/mating in the same manner.
Whereas financial equality used to be a main criteria, it no longer is even valid. In our topsy turvy
world, rich today gone tomorrow. Look at Donald Trump. Bankrupt.
And so many others. It is happening all around Texas thanks to our fine governor who now "runs the world" but thank God not for long.
So like the good doctor says, these days equality is based on mutual interests, common goals, and equal or at least close to equal intelligence. I don't mind at all paying for a dinner or even splitting a bill for a good man. They seem so far and in between these days, I find it a good investment. Most of them pay me back in so many other ways. My friends tend to agree. The days of "pretty facades" are a thing of our parent's generation. Reality, feelings, common ground, mutual goals and the like is what I like, and of course heated sexual attraction doesn't hurt any for certain! Maybe as we evolve further we will truly see that man, or woman is not the enemy, and chivalry will win out, that truly we are spiritual partners in life, here to help one another the best we can. Not buy dinner for sex. The ones who do that remind me of Ted Baxter from the Mary Tyler Moore show. Macho is gone.
Brains and caring and soul are in, at least around these parts.
Sandi S.
Mansfield, Tx
Dear Dr. Arlene,
I believe it is just harder
dating when we pass age 45 or so because we get picky. I tend to have a "grass is always greener on the other side" mentality, but that has often disapointed me. Like everyone else, I really just want to love and be cared for. I don't mind working and making my own money as a woman, I don't even need my equal (financially....got that tshirt and left him....too much peacock strugging while we were married and the dumb women fell for it...I used to be one of them.). I just want a good man. Sometimes I wonder where they are.
Shirley K.
Coral Gables, Fl.
Men buy women dinner due to the underlying economics of passing genes. Women have fewer reproductive opportunities than men, due to their gestation period when pregnant and recovery time. They also invest more in offspring after giving birth, so they are more selective, ceteris paribus. Women value men who value them, as they have an interest in choosing a mate who will share as much of the child-rearing burden as possible, and of course they seek mates with adaptive genes and conditioning, interpreted as sharing common interests. On the other hand, men can take advantage of many more reproductive opportunities than women, and hence have an interest in quantity over quality under many circumstances. Hence, men have to demonstrate that they value the women they date via an investment of money and time to meet the adaptive needs of women and earn their affection.
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