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OMG...is it true? Is chivalry really dead? It seems to be so, as reported in a recent interview and corroborated by several generations of the dating population. In this 21st century world of texting, IM's and internet dating, where oh where has the knight in shining armor gone? It seems his white horse has run off without him and left us women to fend for ourselves!
If only it weren't true, however the reports run steady across the board from those in their 20's to 50's. Most importantly, many men agreed that their peers were oblivious to many of the honorable dating rituals of times gone by.
This interview was done in the "dating trenches" of metropolitan South Florida areas, including South Beach, Miami, and the Palm Beaches. Just to make it clear that the men and women interviewed were not living in rural small town America, where I can only imagine that some of the niceties of romance and courting may still exist.
According to the men interviewed, it has seemingly become a pattern of behavior to "text" rather than make a phone call to their girlfriend. This was apparently the norm whether they were in a current relationship or just starting to date.
It seems that the art of texting allows for a more casual connection. Without having to actually
speak to the other person and experience the pressure of coming up with the right thing to say, this seems to provide for a safety net of sorts.
Has 21st century relationship become so mechanical and separated from the flesh and blood of humanity, that we now only want the quick hook-up without the intimacy involved in the dance of love and romance?
To be continued:
Friday, August 1, 2008
The Dumbing-Down of Chivalry
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17 comments:
Dear Dr Arlen,
Rural men don't need to text all the time. They are real men. They
aren't fake. One day, do a story on why so many singles have migrated from the cities to the
country. That study is right on
targt. Country men know chivalry. They would bend over backwards for you, most of 'em. City men are wusses. Been there done 'em. ALL of them, just big babies.
YOurs,
Adelaide
Oxford, Ms
Dear Dr Arlene,
(and fellow s. Floridian woman).
I am with the survey on this one.
I am a quality woman in s. Fl. and
a pretty good catch, and all I get is "low-life trash driving Mercedes" (or Jags) thinking of nothing except what they can do
with what's in their pants. I don't think real men, with a little soul and caring even exist anymore. I have given up.
Marissa
Ft. Lauderdale
Dear Dr. K,
You remind me of a female Rush Limbaugh, sort of an opposite. EVERY single article is from a female perspective. One might expect that from a garden variety writer, but from a therapist, no thank you. I am a male in Florida, and a good man, and I have enough empathy to see things from both angles. As long as these south Florida women are going to put on the femme fatale "you have to chase me" act, who cares? I have resorted to the Internet, and found
decent women (usually in rural America) and you are right, people behave very differently there in both business and relationships...
women and men. So why should I subject myself to the harrassment of these south Florida women, who are mostly money grabbers, when I can find, and have found, real love in small town Tennessee, where I plan to move as fast as I can get my business dealings resolved. If I owned S. Florida and Hell, I'd live in hell and rent out south Florida. Amen.
Bruce in (but not for long) Miami
Dear Dr. Arlene,
I have an issue, I bet you are going to tell me the same thing my therapist does. I fall for "the bad guys". Yup. I am a nice guys finish last kind of girl. When a guy shows me sincere attention and love he is out the door in a flash. I will critique him with a fine-tooth comb. Never mind my own issues, his are the focus. When I find the "fox", usually a hunk with money and skirt-chaser, my hormones flutter with glee. My therapist tells me it is all about my father (he was abusive to me as a child), and that I subconsciously never got that out of my mind, or she suggests that might be the case and asks me if it is true. I always tell her "no, I would never want a man like my dad", but if I think it through, that is most likely what I am doing. Have lost a lot of good men, and I want to grow up. Just don't know how. I don't want to be
treated like a mannequin (I have very good physical looks) anymore. It is time for real love, but I am thinking it is too late, as I am in my mid-fifties.
Lonely Suzie
New York, New York
Dear Dr. Arlene,
I love your writing style. What
do you think make men and women so different. Growing up, I thought we were pretty much the same, except for plumbing and such, but now, as an adult, I see a lot of psychological and emotional differences. I sometimes wonder why we are even attracted to each other.
Sara in Seattle
Dear Dr. Arlene,
I can tell you with no doubt that chivalry is alive, its just not here, and I am assuming you are in south Florida as well from your writings. I don't know if you are single or not, but the pickens are mighty slim here. You look like an attractive and educated woman, I am considered one, but the men here are all a. pigs b. big babies c. show offs d. brain dead e. don't give a crap about what pleases us in the bedroom or all of the above. I have lived in 22 states in this country and I can assure you mamas raise their sons better in what you call rural America. I wish I'd not grown older here. I don't know if I will ever get back but if I meet a good one, I'm hanging on and getting the dickens out of this rat trap called s. Florida.
Jean
Vero Beach, Fl
Dear Dr. Arlene,
I can tell you with no doubt that chivalry is alive, its just not here, and I am assuming you are in south Florida as well from your writings. I don't know if you are single or not, but the pickens are mighty slim here. You look like an attractive and educated woman, I am considered one, but the men here are all a. pigs b. big babies c. show offs d. brain dead e. don't give a crap about what pleases us in the bedroom or all of the above. I have lived in 22 states in this country and I can assure you mamas raise their sons better in what you call rural America. I wish I'd not grown older here. I don't know if I will ever get back but if I meet a good one, I'm hanging on and getting the dickens out of this rat trap called s. Florida.
Jean
Vero Beach, Fl
Dear Dr. Arlene,
I can tell you with no doubt that chivalry is alive, its just not here, and I am assuming you are in south Florida as well from your writings. I don't know if you are single or not, but the pickens are mighty slim here. You look like an attractive and educated woman, I am considered one, but the men here are all a. pigs b. big babies c. show offs d. brain dead e. don't give a crap about what pleases us in the bedroom or all of the above. I have lived in 22 states in this country and I can assure you mamas raise their sons better in what you call rural America. I wish I'd not grown older here. I don't know if I will ever get back but if I meet a good one, I'm hanging on and getting the dickens out of this rat trap called s. Florida.
Jean
Vero Beach, Fl
Dear Dr. Arlene,
I can tell you with no doubt that chivalry is alive, its just not here, and I am assuming you are in south Florida as well from your writings. I don't know if you are single or not, but the pickens are mighty slim here. You look like an attractive and educated woman, I am considered one, but the men here are all a. pigs b. big babies c. show offs d. brain dead e. don't give a crap about what pleases us in the bedroom or all of the above. I have lived in 22 states in this country and I can assure you mamas raise their sons better in what you call rural America. I wish I'd not grown older here. I don't know if I will ever get back but if I meet a good one, I'm hanging on and getting the dickens out of this rat trap called s. Florida.
Jean
Vero Beach, Fl
Dear Dr. Arlene,
I like your blog; found it on Google. I too, am a south Fl. single woman and find myself in the "dating trenches" suddenly after being divorced several years.
I tend to agree with several of the other bloggers here in that
what I have found in s. Fl is simply not acceptable. I can take
silliness, goofiness, forgetfulness, and all the other
aggravations that men can have, but this neuvo culture of show-off and one-upmanship, and downright
aggressive competitiveness with us (women) is unnaceptable. I have traveled and dated men in various
cities and small towns or as you
say "rural America", and I hate to say it, but chivalry, as far as I can tell, is a last-bastion of those places. That is where it is, and I don't see it on the horizen here anytime soon. We are in a survival of the fittest jungle here, and in the kinde-more-gentler places on our planet, though the men may not be as
exciting, and some of them can
be downright weird, there are some diamonds in the rough there. I
am with the other woman. I've
been here long enough, and even though I own my own business, now, with the Internet, I can make my own network and move it wherever I want. And I want to be around real men....and this is not where they are. I wish I was wrong. I have made every excuse to try to "think they are okay" but there
must be something in the water. Your Little Red Riding Hood story says it all (about our "men"). Compare them to mid-America and I'll take boring but good mid-America men any day of the week.
Regina O.
Ft. Lauderdale
Dear Dr. Arlene,
I am enjoying your blog and have been lurking up until now. Time to speak out. I bet you don't publish this as I am going to be politically incorrect (in your eyes), but I'm going to speak my mind anyway.
I am a 56 year old female m.d. outside of New York City. I have been married once, divorced ten years, and dating every since.
I am known to "tell it like it is" even if it hurts, and even though it hurts, I am teling it.
I am not in the "s. Florida dating trenches", but trust me, this scene is the same. A lot of our men are down your way in the winter and vice versa.
Yes, a lot of them are pure jerks.
But a lot of them are not.
These are the hardest things for me to admit, but they are true of me and very many women associates and friends I know:
a. They finally find love and they toss it away, looking for imperfections only, and of course finding them and deeming their new love "not acceptable", based on
past experiences projected into the present situation.
b. We use a lot of these good men and squeeze them for all we can, maybe offering back a little good bedroom action (a lot of people call this the world's oldest behavior) so I am particularly repulsed at myself, and my friends, when I see or do it. But I do. It is nothing personal against the few good men I run into, it is based on past experiences, and my shield is always up. Waiting for the other shoe to drop. So of course it does. And I got what I want (I wanted the good times in the bedroom too) and yell "NEXT"; and another comes along. Sometimes I feel like a black widow spider. I think I have become a product of my environment and I do not like it at all.
c. Yes I have some very good qualities, but I do not like myself at the moment; forget a moment about how some men have treated me, and some have; but some would have given their souls to me and I cast them aside like they were animals.
d. I have used them for money, sex, and to further my own careers and
given very little back. The good ones as well as the bad ones.
So what is the solution? I think, if I am truly honest with myself,
take the focus off the externals for a few months and look deep inside. Next time I date say, "What did this man really do to hurt me? Did he help me more than hurt me? Did he care about me very much and I didn't give him the time of day?"
We can be bad too, we can play with the best of them, and when we do, we do it so out of habit, we don't even know we are doing it.
I didn't discover it until my last flame (most of them have been from online dating and a few speed dating events).
This man was very different. Unique in ways I cannot begin to say. He took time out for me. He was a very busy person; a programmer with the City of NY.
He took half his days helping me
with my own business. I continued looking for flaws (and of course found them). Thank God he was not doing the same thing with me.
I used him, kicked him out, called him names, and went on to the next.
I am basically a coward. Why couldn't I tell him the truth in the first place? How do you tell a man, you simply are not good at relationships, and that he has to do most of the work?
I am doing therapy, trying to grow up, but even my own therapist has been in similar situations. She has been married twice and has resorted to internet dating due to her busy schedule. When I told her the
raw truth, that I think I really have a low self esteem and use men, even though I am successful (much of it thanks to many of the good men I dated and dumped), she has done it too.
Where do I go for help? I know you won't print this, but if you do, I certainly would like to hear your reaction.
Sally M.D.
Bronxville, NY
Dear Dr. Krieger,
Did you ever stop to think that
perhaps some of these women simply might be ok, but not really worth a phone call? My experience in this neck of the woods, is when calling, I can almost hear the venom coming through the phone, or a fake nicety that makes my blood
boil. I call the women worth calling, and I text the one's who don't deserve to hear my voice. I happen to think highly of myself, and I should. I am a nice person, a good catch, and there are enough women out there who think so. So why should I waste my time talking to those who, I am still connected to, but don't necessarily want to hear their voice? They are simply a waste of time.
Good Boy In
Boynton Beach, Fl
Most men in rural America would be surprised to find that rural men are so valued and I suspect most rural women would as well. As a city bred male who lived 20 years in a very traditional rural town, I’ve a different opinion. I worked a lot with rural youth and also worked over seven years with single moms. We tend to think of the abandoned mom as an urban thing, but that’s a myth as struggling single moms are just as common to rural America if not more so. Sure maybe rural men says yes ma’m but when it comes to true chivalry where it counts the most like living up to one’s responsibility the record speaks for itself.
Dating in your middle years sucks all around. I’m not sure that the women behave any better than the men especially in Southern Florida. That men are materialistic and brag about what they have is a learned behavior, not a spontaneous one. The women writing into this blog are just as unique as the few decently behaving men who also suffer loneliness and frustration. The women in Southern florida as a whole are crass, materialistic, and selfish. While most write that they want romance, they want it wrapped in Gucci and delivered in at least a Lexus. If men didn’t get women by being strutting egotistical peacocks, natural selection would obliterate them. Chivalry is cultivated by the distaff side’s employment of gentility, gracefulness, and gratitude. Expect the worst and the worst is realized. There are good kind people of both sexes in Southern Florida and some of them are even heterosexual. But statistically speaking, it’s tough to find one another. Each side has to be willing to be vulnerable and take the chance of assuming the goodness of those they meet; each of us must be willing to give ourselves permission to show our best side. Sure some pigs will never change, but most men I believe would act with greater kindness if kindness was not confused so easily with weakness. Women need to act like ladies with the belief ( not the entitlement) that such behavior will prompt more chivalrous behavior. And men must not allow the contempt displayed by some women to shape their behavior to all women.
in Delray
Dear Dr. Arlene,
Here in Chicago, men text all the time. I kind of enjoy getting these little messages. Now, on the other hand, if that is the only way they know how to communicate, I would think they are duds, and sure enough, a lot of men don't have the courage to pick up the phone and call just to see how I'm doing. I generally put them aside, and don't have a lot to do with them. If they send a text every now and again, I kind of think it's cute.
Good blog.
Patti
Suburbs of the Windy City
Dear Dr. Arlene,
Re: the last poster Alex. I could not agree more. The similarities exist around the globe, not just s. Fl as far as the abanoned mom.
The differences I have seen, and I have lived both urban and rural, is that the mid-life crises may happen in say the rural midwest to a male, but acting it out is not tolerated by these cultures. You do not see the "feather strutting" in such areas. I am not saying it does not happen, am just saying it is ignored for the most part, frowned upon at best, and left alone to wilter way if persisted.
My experience in urban America (maybe its like this in S. Fl too as you explain..I have never lived there) is that it is, as you say, learned, encouraged, and a part of
the lifestyle. Why any smart woman would buy into it, is beyond me, but some do. I guess they think they have no other choice, either bite the bullet or be alone?
Steve
Union, MO
Dear Dr. Arlene,
I am a rural woman (abandoned) and I agree with this last blogger, Alex. But I do think it is only fair, and I do not think it is
human nature, dating in our
40's and 50's to cut the other
party a little slack. We do live in tough times, and, if a man and women are upfront, realistic, and honest, they will work things out regarding who pays for what. As for the "feather-strutting men" of south florida, yup, we have them here too in Kentucky, just problably not near as many. But we women, can be snakes too and we often want what we want, and we
do sometimes step on a man to get it. Sorry to say, wish it wasn't true, but it is. Not that some of them don't deserve it. As for the peacock struttin' men (the ones who usually deserve it), can't they figure out they are not God?
We women watch the news too. I don't care if they are Bill Gates, right now, nobody has a pot to pee in and they outta quit insulting our intelligence or we WiLL make 'em pay for everything and they might get a peck on the cheek back. but in my case, more likely
a big slap.
Karina,
Shelbyville, KY
Dear Dr. Kriger,
I am I guess considered an attractive woman and have been thought so since my teens. Even now in my fifties when a man buys me dinner, nine times out of ten, he tells me his "deepest inner thoughts" which (what a surprise) usually include the bedroom. And yeah, nine times out of ten, its a first date!! First of all I ask him to at least give me time to digest my lobster dinner, he doesn't want me to hurl on him in bed, does he? And secondly, it takes me at least 6-8 weeks if not months for him to prove himself
of value to me. And he can't do that with pure cash, I make my own. He has to do it with, like you say, chivalry, and VERY few men, even know what that means. I won't get into the debate whether rural or
urban men know more, but I know that here in mid-town America there is a bit more chivalry, after reading the results of your interviews. There are some jerks, but most men do not behave that way. If they can't afford a five star restaurant they tell you. I would rather go out with that kind of honest man any day than a man with a ferrari who cannot even pay his child support. Some of these men really do think buying you a dinner is buying you. And then when they figure out you are onto them, they come back with flowers, an apology, and then try the same dam thing again. I prefer the nice common guy who at least tells me like it is.
Thanks for this blog.
Susan
McComb, Ms
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